pack image database / large number of clients

    I have recently installed Conquest at a small imaging center (have had on line for one week) and already there is over 30 Gigs of data, over 800 folders. Re-indexing takes a long time. Server is an Intel Xeon Quad Core, 8 Gigs ram, raid 5 (3 500 Gig SATA-II drives) and OS is Windows 2003 Server Standard R2 with NO server functions at all running.


    What exactly does "pack image database" do? Is there a manual available for this product?


    Does it run better and faster using built in SQL Database or is the built in DBase the best method. I need to make it quicker the more images that get loaded, especially when they start downloading past studies that they now have backed up on MO disks.


    Maybe create another Conquest Server and use it for older cases and call "Archive". Using iQ-View for query and retrieve and can always query and retrieve from both at the same time.


    Thanks


    Pat Stacey
    pmstacey@roadrunner.com

    Hi,


    reindexing requires reading all images and is typically not limited by the database speed. However, in principle, you should never have to reindex: it is only required when the database structure is updated or when the database is lost.


    Packing the database removes deleted records from the dbaseIII tables. However, there should not be many in there (they only appear when you delete images from the server).


    As far as the database is concerned, I now believe MySQL is the best choice for large installations. It can be installed on the same machine. There is an extensive database section in the windowsmanual document.


    What particular operation do you want to speed up? The fastest read/write speed is probably obtained by saving the images (non-standard) as .V2, uncompressed or with NKI compression. Saving the images as .DCM is slower, and JPEG compression is particularly slow.


    Marcel

    Thanks for the quick response.


    My concerns are two fold. As this database grows, how long it will take to query out records. Not too worried about local queries inside the building, they are on a gigabyte lan, very concerned on the remote queries and retrevials. The sending is on a Fiber Optics Line (20 up and down) and the retrevial is on a cable line (15 down, 2 up). Should be ok, just checking.


    Can it be switched to MySQL after being set up with the default DBASEIII ???


    Also, the pack database function, now that I know what it does, is helpful at two other locations. Thanks.


    Is creating an Archive Server as I descibed ok? Mulitple servers and just query both at the same time and retreive that way??


    Great product, but I have to use 1.412c ONLY. I have tried the later versions (up to 1.414) and they all crash the same way, memory error.


    Also, does only the later version have the ability to use a Web viewer?


    Pat Stacey

    The bulk of your data is in the data folder and file size and number of folders would not have a direct impact on database queries. Day to day data queries would come from the tables which are designed to hold millions of records for most database types and still query quickly (assuming a decent database design and query optimization).


    Re-initalizing within Conquest means it's reading the data folder, pulling information from each folder and file and putting info *into* the database which is why it takes a long time. Normal use is to query the database to get locations of files and pull them without having to crawl through the directory structure or read files not specifically pertinent to the study/patient you want to view.


    I would guess you can create a mysql database and then re-index to fill it with info. That is the situation for which the re-initializing is designed for, I think.


    The later versions do have a web viewer. The latest one, in my opinion, is superior to a lot of the paid for web viewers out there. It's simple but functional with the only downside being that it's ActiveX and requires permission to install activex on the target computer to be used.


    P.S. One of my fav things about the Conquest web viewer is it handles image compression on the server side before sending it to the viewer through the cgi. With the dsize option you can make a vpn-friendly low resolution setup so images do not take very long to transmit over a low bandwidth connection. This obviously takes some server resource so you have to balance between overhead on the server and bandwidth usage. You would have to check with Marcel about which dgate.exe is doing the image manipulation (dgate.exe server side or cgi side) to consider if it would be worthwhile to have a separate server running the webview if you do have a high number of web viewers and server overhead is a concern.

    Hi,


    you are correct: it is easy to switch database. The easiest way to switch database is to delete dicom.ini which forces the server to go through the install procedure again including the choise of database driver.


    On a WAN query speed will be determined by the network, not by the database driver. But MySQL gives the most compact database with the least requirements for maintenance.


    Splitting data to an archive server is not very helpful, the speed of the server should not be impaired up to millions of images.


    As far as your crash is concerned, please give me the crash information (adress, drwatson report, or whatever you can get) and then I can fix it. I am not aware of other recent crash reports.


    Marcel

    Thank you both for your replies. You have made my concerns for the large database disappear. I will play with switching the database engine on my own so as not to take down the server.


    Your product is fantastic. While it does require more maintenance and lacks some of the big boys features, it sure is the best out there, hands down. I can't tell you how many small "mom and pop" clinics and such have fallen in love with your server software, especially since they can't get a PAC server without spending tons of money for not only the software, but hardware and maintenance. I just use two external 500 gig USB drives and Acronis software for backup. Never have to worry about losing data.


    The only way I can regenerate the memory error is to actually use the software. It always happens when trying to reinitialize the database, with new data so I am sure it is not corrupt data.


    I have to look more at the Web viewer. I am assuming it will not work with the earlier versions. I don't know alot about it, but since I have been in networking and computers since 1979 and running my own service company since 1988, I am sure I can either figure it out or get someone that will. The Web viewer would a fantastic thing since right now I use iQ-View for all viewing.


    How does the Web viewer work in conjunction with inputting known dicomm contacts??? Do I need to list everyone that is trying to use the Web viewer?? I won't know their IP address's and such. When using the Web viewer is that part not used?


    Again, absolutely fantastic product. Has solved a ton of problems for all the small to medium clinics I service now.


    Pat Stacey

    Hi Pat,


    for the web viewer you do not need to enter each user, since only the web server is using a DICOM connection. The web viewer of 1.4.14 will likely not work (fully) against 1.4.12c but you can give it a try.


    Actually, without the web viewer, you can also use wildcard AE titles in dicom.ini, which would allow you to use one definition for multiple AE's containing the IP address. We use this to connect all our viewers. I.e., if my IP is 192.168.0.2, then if I use AE V192.168.0.2 the server matches this to V* in acrnema.map, and takes the IP from the AE.


    Still interested in the crash though, can you give more details of what happens when you try to reinitialize the database?


    Marcel

    Thank you again. I have setup the lastest version of Conquest on my system and I am transferring images from one of the other Conquest servers. When i get enough over, I will put in debug mode and try to crash again to give you the exact message.


    Hopefully I can get the Web side to work so I won't need to use another viewer.


    Thanks again.


    Pat Stacey

    is there a limit to the amount of contacts? everything has been going good with the 3 Conquest Servers until I started adding a lot of dicom contacts.


    It seems that once you get above 15, there are issues. I am constantly getting "xxx refused connection" where there have been no changes except to add another contact


    everyone is using iQ-VIEW. I made abosolutely no changes on either side and in the last few days, a lot of errors with connection refusals since I added about 5 more contacts.


    I know there is a way to wildcard the contacts, but I really did not understand how and where I do it.


    Below is the list for one of the servers and the next list is for the other server.


    PACSERVER 10.0.10.101 104 un
    SISTERSKPAC 192.168.19.100 1004 un
    PMSSERVER 10.0.5.5 104 un
    ADVANCED 192.168.99.113 4006 un
    RIGGIO 192.168.12.3 104 un
    DAVELHOME 192.168.4.129 104 un
    RIGGIO-TIA 10.0.10.2 4001 un
    CHESS-HOME 192.168.111.101 104 un
    NADEEM-HOME 192.168.14.14 104 un
    BMG-TIA 10.0.7.5 104 un
    LUDWIG-SUMMIT 24.75.63.51 104 un
    KALE-HOME 10.0.3.3 104 un
    TIRONE-TIA 192.168.10.24 104 un
    LUDWIG-NMM 24.75.63.52 104 un
    IQBALVHOME 192.168.15.15 104 un
    BMG-MRI 72.45.240.14 104 un
    BMG-KPACS 127.0.0.1 1004 un
    ALAM-HOME 10.0.15.100 104 un
    TIRONE-HOME 71.186.235.242 104 un
    AKHTAR-HOME 192.168.0.100 104 un
    KALE-TAMPA 10.0.14.100 104 un
    RIGGIO-MARCOS 192.168.25.100 104 un
    TIRONE-MARCOS 192.168.26.100 104 un
    LUDWIG-ELLICOT 192.168.17.100 104 un



    PACSERVER 10.0.10.101 104 un
    TIASISTERS 192.168.19.100 104 un
    PMSSERVER 10.0.5.5 104 un
    ADVANCED 192.168.99.113 4001 un
    BMG-KPACS 10.0.7.5 1004 un
    RIGGIO 192.168.12.3 104 un
    DAVELHOME 192.168.4.129 104 un
    RIGGIO-TIA 10.0.10.2 4001 un
    CHESS-HOME 192.168.111.107 104 un
    NADEEM-HOME 192.168.14.14 104 un
    LUDWIG-SUMMIT 24.75.63.51 104 un
    SISTERSKPAC 127.0.0.1 1004 un
    KALE-HOME 10.0.3.3 104 un
    TIRONE-TIA 192.168.10.24 104 un
    LUDWIG-NMM 24.75.63.52 104 un
    IQBALVHOME 71.186.231.6 104 un
    BMG-MRI 192.168.18.5 104 un
    ALAM-HOME 10.0.15.100 104 un
    TIRONE-TIA 192.168.10.24 104 un
    TIRONE-HOME 192.168.15.5 104 un
    KALE-TAMPA 10.0.14.100 104 un
    RIGGIO-MARCOS 192.168.25.100 104 un
    TIRONE-MARCOS 192.168.26.100 104 un
    LUDWIG-ELLICOT 192.168.17.100 104 un


    Everything started going haywire after adding the last 4 contacts.


    Thanks


    Pat Stacey

    Hi Pat,


    I am not aware of such issues and do not see any limitation in the code. Can you take the last 4 out again and see if things return to normal? It could be an unrelated network problem. If not, can you take them out one by one? What are the exact error messages?


    The wildcard mapping (that we use with many many clients) works as follows:


    In the server add at the end in acrnema.map, e.g.,: V* * 104 un


    Use as client AE for LUDWIG-ELLICOT, e.g., "V192.168.17.100" This will tell the server to send images back to * = 192.168.17.100, at port 104. The same way other clients can be added as long as the IP adress fits in 15 characters.


    Marcel

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